Sexta-feira, 9 de Abril de 2010

Porrada nos putos

Em vários blogs apareceu a referência a um artigo britânico, no qual um secretário de estado afirma a possibilidade de os professores poderem usar força física em certas situações.

Teachers can use physical restraint, says Ed Balls

O que achei mais extraordinário, foram os comentários deixados pelos leitores, alguns dos quais transcrevi abaixo. A indisciplina, a falta de regras e a anarquia quase generalizada, afectam muitos países. Portugal incluído.

É incrível como há uma aceitação global de que os meninos têm direito a serem indisciplinados, a impedirem os outros de aprenderem, a agredirem verbal e fisicamente quem lhes apetece, a desrespeitarem tudo e todos, a destruírem propriedade alheia, etc. E o próprio país é impotente para aplicar a mais básica medida, que seria o princípio do fim: dizer basta!



What an excellent idea. Teachers can use force on pupils.

It's probably not going to do any good to the ones that have already tried and lost their jobs but hey, at least there will be guidelines (which I hope are very clear and easy to follow).

I can just see it being another mine field teachers have to navigate. But if the government issues them all with tazers then they wont even have to touch the unruly children and can just sit back and taze them from the comfort of their own chairs. That would probably make teaching more appealling too.

All in all it's nice thoughts but its nothing unless teachers are given the proper legal back up they deserve!



Taking us back to the 1980s, typical nasty party nonsense. Exactly what we've come to expe...

Oh wait, wrong thread, wrong bias, wrong paper. Excuse me.



This just seems like a cynical populist measure to try and attract votes before the election.

As Sneekyboy says, in practice this will be a legal minefield and local education authorities will probably just impose their own policies anyway. Which will be designed to avoid litigation.

The Government needs to stop tinkering with education and set up an independent body of people who are experts in the field to decide school curriculum and policy.



...what we come to expect from bully boy Balls...lets just bully the kids into behaving, and set ourselves up for the increase in violence within schools towards staff. The argument kids are using more and more these days is,' you get to do that so why shouldnt I?' whether it is regarding uniform, bringing hot drinks into class or, I can envisage, assault, in their eyes.

All i know is my job gets harder year after year and behaviour and poor attitude is getting worse and worse. This latest wheeze, however is not the answer.



It's probably not going to do any good to the ones that have already tried and lost their jobs but hey, at least there will be guidelines (which I hope are very clear and easy to follow).



This just seems like a cynical populist measure to try and attract votes before the election.

B...BB... BUT... it's the 'right thing to do!', even if no lessons (at least any that might be of value to anyone) have been learned.

I heard that on TV, so it must be true.



Actually, those are things that characterise the teaching force today, not twenty years ago.



Ed Balls clearly has no experience of difficult children in the classroom so why is he handing out advice?

I think he should stick to what he knows best, undermining Alistair Darling and filling in his Expense claims.



Ed balls gives us his blessing to restrain unrully children. At the end of the day if you have no discipline in children then you will have no respect. If you allow children to behave in this way then you are commiting an offence by not looking after their safety. In this case you should not be allowed to look after children. As Balls is in charge of Schools he in my opinion should be removed from his post and charged with the lack of responsability and the safety and welfare of children in his care.



I often wonder how much experience people commenting have of the things hey comment on, not much I'm guessing.

Where are these examples of teachers that have lost their jobs having used reasonable force in situations justifying it? This isn't about "bullying" - very often it's about using physical force to keep children safe. The 'don't touch me' culture is wrong and largely formed because of supposed risks of litigation which much like the reluctance to undertake school trips have little actual basis.

Sadly I agree that whatever is said, local authorities will likely still keep their own nonsense policies in place.



Too late. Many experienced teachers have packed their bags and resigned or taken early retirement. The damage has been done and ignored by Labour's conspiracy to wreck education. Balls should spend a few days working within inner city schools and witness the sad state of UK education where pupil indiscipline and pupil aggression stops teachers doing their job.



The suggestion by Ed balls is very unhelpful. Anyone can understand the great temptation to intervene when a child behaves badly but the reality is that the majority of children now believe themselves to be entitled to their bad behaviour in retaliation for whatever offence they believe has been committed against them , and therefore immune to physical restraint or intervention from authority figures such as teachers. If Balls is followed, eventually a situation will arise where a teacher will intervene and a child will retaliate or the teacher and /or child will become embroiled with lethal or serious force, either for the teacher, the child or a bystander. It is clear that Balls does not understand the absolute loss of control and total withdrawal from rationality, or the unmitigated malice which some children and teenagers are capable of in a school setting.

Having set off many years ago down the road of tolerating the intolerable in our schools,( if you want to achieve any learning), we are now stuck with trying to resolve the consequences by reducing conflict in other ways. The number of occasions when I have seen dangerous situations helped by a physical intervention are vanishingly small. Even the mildest physical contacts can turn into legal minefields which cost people their livings, goodwill and peace of mind, and cost a small fortune in legal fees and organisational time and disruption. Nearly always we have to to step back and try to minimise the damage with calm and responsible behaviour rather than being sucked into a potentially more emotional and dangerous position.

When I hear a minister stating such a message it is truly depressing as it reveals the depths of populist drivel that supposedly responsible politicians will sink to, to try to boost their chances of surviving their coming ordeal by ballot box.



In the end I could not listen to Balls any longer I have a real problem with him using time talking to techers for his election campaigning . I know as well as any teacher ,I am a parent activist and have been for for 25 years, guidelines are not worth the paper they are written on and Balls nor any other quango will support teacher when a complaint is made. It must be made clear to all parents the schools rules on physical restraint when the pupil joins the school and if necessary they need to sign up to these rules. It is not just the classrooms where there is a problem but then a Secretry of State who finds pupils wearing stab proof vest to school acceptable and has allowed over the last 3 years the drug culture to circulate freely in some schools and certainly out in the streets, does not deserve to be in post anyway. It is time we as a nation supported our teachers and got our heads out of the sand. If we can raise so much energy to stop people smoking etc how come we cannot give our children some rules to live by and enforce them throught parents. Bring back behaviour units and pupil referral units and clean up the drug and drink problem for many teenagers then we may start to help techers and other pupils who want to learn



Here is one very recent example of a teacher losing their job.

Lifted from the Watford Observer.

Sacked Watford teacher Martin Elvin appeals decision

3:38pm Wednesday 31st March 2010

A popular teacher who was controversially sacked from a Watford school has appealed against the decision.

Science teacher Martin Elvin was sacked from Westfield Community Technology College after allegedly pushing a teenage student into a door.

After nine months? suspension he was dismissed earlier in the month by a disciplinary committee of school governors ? much to the ire of supporters, some of whom had protested outside the school demanding his reinstatement.

Sources close to the case say Mr Elvin, who is not allowed to discuss the case, has now lodged an appeal, which will be heard by another panel of school governors.

If unsuccessful he has the option to appeal at an employment tribunal.

Hertfordshire County Council said it could not confirm whether or not an appeal had been lodged.

I'm sure that there will be more but this is just to highlight that it is a problem.



Ed Balls should spend more time studying all the PC crap legislation hisparty has passed into law before he opens his large incompetent mouth,any teacher laying a hand on a child is subject to police intervention and almost certainly at least a verbal warning,labour and its love of control is the largest problems to education and the NHS in this country,their obsesion with red tape and statistics have relegated teaching and health care as secondary to filling in forms ,Balls like his mentor Brown is nothing but a shallow bully who cannot see beyond his gigantic ego.



Just more pre Election blah blah from the Balls Boy. After a decade of tinkering with the Education system and releasing into Society under educated , socially deprived children who are now parent(s) of schoolchildren it is too late. Just one the factors contributing to Broken Britain.

Here is a suggestion. Let Mr B spend some time standing in for a Teacher in a school / class not of his choosing. I think the experience might do him some good.



"Many of the things you hear about social work ? about demoralisation on the front line, the gap in understanding between management and professionals, having to leave frontline practice to be promoted ? those are many of the things that characterised the teaching profession of 20 years ago," he said.

How out of touch is this man? Does he really not have a clue what's going on in our schools? Does he think teachers are happy with the situation now? Behaviour is appalling. We have ridiculous teaching methods forced on us through observations and inspections. Paperwork is ridiculous.

Teaching blog here.



I agree wholeheartedly! Although I don't like this expression it is apt enough here; 'don't talk the the talk until you have walked the walk'. Can you possibly imagine the Balls Boy giving a class in a city centre school? He be stamped on and spat out before playtime!



What I find most distressing and disheartening is the "Balls, who received a standing ovation from some delegates in Birmingham"




@sneekyboy pushing a student into a door isn't quite what I had in mind with reasonable force in a justifiable situation!



Ed Balls is presiding over an Orwellian experiment to allow pupils to call the shots in the classroom. This will lead to a 'tail wagging the dog scenario' and ultimately to good teachers not joining the teaching profession and how will it help education??



I twice replaced teachers who were badly beaten by students when working as a supply teacher in London. How do you think I would have done using force? That said, I often tugged on shirts and once or twice grabbed arms to stop fighting, which happened (seriously) daily in some of the schools... Teaching back in Canada is relatively effortless. It's a sad state of affairs there and nothing is being done to fix it in any real way.

It's all meetings and league tables and mock tests and course-work marking (and "not course-work" ignoring) and yelling at the top of lungs. There are simply not enough adults in the building to adequately control today's city kids. Classes are too big and respect is near zero. The kids deserve so much more than stressed, depressed, half-hearted efforts to just get through the day.

Paper-shuffling and random comments about teachers using force don't fix schools. Smaller classes and a well-trained assistant (possibly even a system of new teachers being an assistant before they progress) in every class would be a good start. Acknowledging that state schools are supposed to be good places to send kids and making them good rather than just mocking them for being crap all the time would be another good start.

Throw money at banks, relax regulations and let bankers do their jobs to fix the economy. Underfund schools, add red tape daily, tell teachers how to teach and suggest they use force to control their classes. Something is very wrong...



The article does not say what the provocation was but I am merely using it as an example that when a teacher intervenes the system is geared against them. Do you suppose the student in the case received any disciplinary action?

Also who is to say that pushing the student into the door was not reasonable force? In self defence or defence of another student a mild shove into a door would be reasonable and justifiable.

The point is that in any instance the teacher comes off worse under the current touch me and I'll sue you culture.



When will Balls stop micromanaging and let teachers and parents decide how to discipline children?! Balls should not be able to tell teachers that they are allowed to use force where necessary. It is not up to him! When is this micromanaging going to stop?! I have absolutely no control over my boy's education and it drives me mad. Balls obviously has no idea about how to educate children, it is time he let parents have a say.



@ ycooperballsI feel the same ,I have experienced this micromanaging scheme on many occasions at my child?s school. How do you propose we institute change under such a poorly managed government.



@ suddafc

Like you have said, it is obvious that the current government is not willing to give away any control to the parents. But neither are the Tories or the Lib Dems. I have a bit of a look round to see if any other parties were pro parental and teacher control and came across Jury Team, here is there web site take a look at it.



We need fresh thinking on schools and it's clear that neither of the BigBad3 are doing that. The teachers know it (they showed it yesterday lunchtime), the parents know it, and the kids need it. Any alternative is welcome.



@ycooperballs I have perused the website, and they make some very valid points and hand a lot of control to the parents. The policy regarding the option to opt out is extremely beneficial.



Why would you let parents control schools? Unruly kids are raised by unruly parents...

Giving teachers more power is a good idea though - The Jury Team look alright, but who are they?!



I have perused the website, and they make some very valid points and hand a lot of control to the parents. The policy regarding the option to opt out is extremely beneficial.

It is a great policy. It means that parents can choose to opt their child's school out of local authority control. By doing this, parents, teachers and governors can all work together and decide on the best way to dicipline children. Instead of having to discipline children the way Balls suggests.

If there is a Jury Team candidate in my area, I will definately be voting for them.



it doesn't matter who you vote for... nothing will change!!!



The answer is, of course, don't get into teaching in the first place. Those adverts, yes those, are dreadful. Secondary school kids are awful. Anybody who willingly takes on this career choice deserves everything they get.

At university, nearly everyone I knew wanted to teach. Do you know why? Was it to make a difference? No. The answer was that it was a secure income for the rest of their lives. It was, for them anyway, an easy option.

If nobody takes teaching as a career option, two things would happen, the people concerned will be happy, and there will be a shortage of teachers. The government, and maybe some parents, would have to face the truth that schools are a nasty place to be. What makes it nasty? The kids!



6 Apr 2010, 1:28PM

At university, nearly everyone I knew wanted to teach. Do you know why? Was it to make a difference? No. The answer was that it was a secure income for the rest of their lives. It was, for them anyway, an easy option.

That probably says more about the degree course you did than about teachers in general. Teaching was probably about the worst paid and most stressful of all the options available to me. But I did want to make a difference. Still do.

Teaching blog here.



Violence toward disruptive children is not the way forward but a Soviet style liquid cosh could do a lot to restrain these little gits.



Most of the comments here are either entirely irrelevant to the topic or misinformed.

I'm no fan of Balls but he is simply re-stating the law as it has existed in this country ever since corporal punishment in state schools was outlawed under Margaret Thatcher in 1986.

Teachers have always been legally entitled to use reasonable force to protect themselves or others (e.g to break up a fight ) or to protect property. He is not suggesting violence towards children, the vast majority of whom in both primary and secondary schools actually behave well and often better than many adults in the streets around their schools. He is simply making it clear that if a child has totally lost control and is smashing up the furniture or whatever it is not assault to stop them and never has been.



What happened to 'prevention is better than cure'. Surely the Social and Emotional Aspects of Learning (SEAL) are far more important, perhaps with the hope that fighting in school will diminish. A Utopian view I know but still very central.

My son's SEAL is applied during assembly. Because he is on the Autistic Spectrum he is unable to take in long verbal commands, the headteacher may as well be talking in another language.

Yet when he behaves in a socially unacceptable way he is punished, with absolutely no guidance or additional input.

When he moves to secondary I hope he won't fight but the likelyhood is, that he will because of his impulsivity. I feel completely frustrated that there will be an individual who has been 'trained' to restrain him but but no one to guide him on what is morally, socially or behaviouraly acceptable.

Please, this is the 21st century and the sooner we start working on young peoples empathy and self awareness the sooner they'll stop kicking s#*@ out of one another. Self esteem is key and young people need to feel good about themselves. As adults we are all responsible, parents, teachers, dinner ladies, for the outcomes in society so lets start working together and trusting one another.



The UK doesn't have a Ministry of Education, or even a Department of Education.

The only country in the world without one. That's why teachers like Shoesmith were put in charge of child protection. Total disaster. Where else would someone like Balls be put in charge ? Who is he ?



I feel completely frustrated that there will be an individual who has been 'trained' to restrain him but but no one to guide him on what is morally, socially or behaviouraly acceptable.

Well if that's the attitude of his parents he certainly doesn't have a hope.

SEAL is nonsense. You can't teach a class of 30 how to feel. Even if you could the emphasis on self-esteem wouldn't help. That said I haven't a clue what schools can do if you, as a parent, think it's somebody else's job to develop your son's social skills and behavour, and you are willing to use this as an excuse for his poor behaviour.



7 Apr 2010, 4:17PM

@oldandrew. You said it, SEAL is complete B@#*@cks and I hope now you have bought it into the political arena, we all can begin to have a dialogue about it. Because parent's believe it's the schools responsibility, teachers think it's the parents responsibilty. Meanwhile, young people are being stabbed while us 'adults' sit blaming one another. I do not hold the school responsible for my son's social and emotional intelligence and I quote myself, "As adults we are all responsible, parents, teachers, dinner ladies, for the outcomes in society so lets start working together and trusting one another".

I feel very judged by your comment and I know as parents go, I am a very good one.

My son is 10 and has lived with ADHD without Ritalin because of the behaviour modification techniques I use at home. His behaviour has been manageable both at home and in school.

I briefly read your blog on self esteem and at no point did you even mention Mental Health which is, as a parent of a child with medium level needs, is very scary. I refer you to Clare Allens article.

I chose to bring life into this world and I am completely responsible for every aspect of his Self, with a big 'S'. I am a responsible parent who will do everything she needs to, so that her child may know what is morally and socially acceptable.


If a child has an underlying mental health need, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is useless without the right medication. I refer you to 'People with Hyperactivity', Edited by Eric Taylor, Lead Professor in ADHD, Institute of Psychiatry.


publicado por pedro-na-escola às 15:23
link | comentar | favorito

~posts recentes

~ E a Terra é plana…

~ A propósito dos melhores…

~ A propósito de oportunida...

~ A propósito das paranóias...

~ Especialistas em educação

~ O que vai ficar por fazer

~ Nuno Crato e a definição ...

~ Mega-Agrupamentos 4 - a p...

~ Mega-Agrupamentos 3

~ Mega-Agrupamentos 2

~ Mega-Agrupamentos

~ O segredo do sucesso nas ...

~ A anedota da vaca

~ Por falar em reduzir as d...

~ Agressividade de autores ...

~ Brincando às competências...

~ Pois, realmente, não foi ...

~ Contas ao número de aluno...

~ Reforço da autoridade dos...

~ Incompetência ao rubro...



~ Julho 2011

~ Junho 2011

~ Maio 2010

~ Abril 2010

~ Março 2010

~ Novembro 2009

~ Outubro 2009

~ Setembro 2009

~ Agosto 2009

~ Julho 2009

~ Junho 2009

~ Maio 2009

~ Abril 2009

~ Fevereiro 2009

~ Janeiro 2009

~ Dezembro 2008

~ Novembro 2008

~ Outubro 2008

~ Abril 2008

~ Março 2008

~ Fevereiro 2008

~ Janeiro 2008

~chafurdar no blog